There are a few reasons people choose to go with DE. One of the reasons I went with them originally was because I like the challenge of the glass hammer. It makes you think to stay alive and is a blast to play. Others of course might get into them because of the darn shiny models. This is all good as long as you know what your in for. Some people really like the lure and are just a bit sadistic (personally I love the lure). Whatever your reason this army is a fun to play as long as you aren't a coward. Expect to get whooped a few times till you get the play style down because 1 wrong whip in the wrong place and you are a sad panda.
And now for the breakdown.
HQ
Asdrubael Vect - Let's start of with big papa. He is a beast. An expensive beast. but a beast none the less. He starts off letting you steal initiative on a 4+. Amazing. He has preferred enemy (the world) as does his squad. And really prefers fighting things of the Eldar persuasion. Re-rolling wounds against DE and Eldar. He is darn good in melee even though he is AP3 though he does wound on a 3+ and the built in shadowfield is nice. He also comes with Haywire grenades so he has some AV as well. Personally I don't use him solely on points cost. And never take his boat. So expensive and not worth it.
Urien Rakarth - Not a fan of him. He is just an expensive haemonculus. Does the same stuff. Starts with a pain token and makes Wracks troops. I don't think you need him. I prefer a normal Haemie. Forgot to mention he gives D3 pain tokens away to start off the game. That is pretty darn decent.
Lady Malys - Fancy archon. Though not bad at all. Relatively cheap and lets you redeploy units after deployment. Her 4++ is quite nice as well. Her immunity to psychers is nice but situational.
Drazhar - Yay for ignoring armor saves. He is expensive but man he can wreck house. Nice 2+ save keeps him alive, gets an extra attack on 6s for armor saves. With a squad of Incubi (only thing he can deploy with, sadly)they can handle most situations. He can bounce around the combat witch is silly.
Duke Sliscus - The duke is pretty good. Gives your vehicles (excl. fliers) deep strike. Stick him with a warrior squad and you are flinging 3+ poison everywhere. Lets wyches re-roll drugs. And with double venom blades he can hold his own in CC. Great Unit!
Kheradruakh - Didn't like him in 5th and don't like him much more in 6th. Archon is better at ID and gets a 2++ for a bit. Just forget this guy.
Lelith Hesperax -This girl is one of my favorite characters. She is pricey but man is it fun to watch her jump into a set of troops and annihilate them. Her special rules are sick. 3++ dodge is really nice and here half a billion attacks scare the crap out of people. If you want to draw fire from everything on the board then this is your girl. You will not find a better WS or BS. She is a beast on a turret. Put her on your quad gun and and watch the planes fall.
Baron Sathonyx - This is my boy. He gives you a +1 to rolls to determine deployment. Strength bonus assault is sweet. Tossing out stealth to his unit, very sweet. He makes Hellions troops, not bad. He is pretty nice with the hellions because of the special rules he gives them but he is more fun in a beast squad. His movement is very similar to them and he had stealth and some extra attacks.
Archon - This guy is cheap and amazing. Pump him up a bit and he can really mess up an opponents game plan. He downs MCs and ICs like nobodies business with a huskblade and can get a 2++ while doubling strength. Sweetness incarnate.Personally I don't really care for the retinue options because you have to get at least one of each. I think you can toss him in with a squad of incubi or wyches and be just as effective.
Succubus - This girl is all wych. That is really the only place for her. She gets her drugs and that is helpful (especially on a 6). She is cheap and makes a squad of wyches very potent. If you are not taking wyches leave her in the bag.
Haemonculi - This guy/gal is a mainstay in a ton of list due to his minimal cost and his ability to drop of a pain token is a big plus. You can snag 3 for 1 HQ slot and throw them in your troops to give them FnP. They also bring in Wracks as a troops choice. Ancient upgrade is a waste of points
ELITES
Wracks - Never run as Elites. Not worth it. As troops though they are pretty good. Tough units are hard to come by in the DE codex. Once they nom some pain and suffering they get pretty darn good. I prefer them in small units normally on a venom.
Mandrakes - No. The answer is no. That is all. Stop asking. NO!
Incubi - These guys are great assault units. The bonuses from the klaives are great. fleet is lovely and if you pair them with an assault archon their is not much that can stop them. If you need to get in on a Termies then the guys can hold their own. Nice high initiative keeps you hitting hard and first.
Grotesques - Not a fan at all. Big, slow, and dumb. They don't fit with DE at all in that aspect. They have some high strength stuff and kinda worked with a Haemy and a WWP in 5th but with the WWP nerf I don't see them as viable at all.
Harlequins - 4+ cover save is awesome. At this point everyone has seen the Harlistar builds. Expensive and fun. Great looking models to boot (think of the cool paint jobs for their transports). Drop a Harlistar on the board and watch people try and avoid it.
Kabalite Trueborn - By far the best Elite choice. They're called blasterborn for a reason. 4 on a venom is deadly. Use them. That is all.
Hekatrix Bloodbrides - Another one of those units that is just not good. Ask yourself, are they really any better than wyches? The answer is pretty much, no.
TROOPS
Kabalite Warriors - Pew pew all day long. These guys are great and have a few builds that work well. 5 in a venom and you have nice mobility and they are cheap scoring units. Throw a bunch on a raider with splinter wracks and you have a ton of shots being awesome. Foot schlog'em and they are real cheap objective holders or can march forward throwing poison everywhere. They also have access to some nice gear and can really be kitted out to match your play style.
Wych Squad - Whyches took a stern kick to the lady bits in 6th but are still viable. Haywire grenades are great for AV and they can really hold up some units. Pain tokens make them better but FnP nerf kinda hurt. Give them a decent melee HQ and they can really get in someones way. Raider them up the field and piss off a mech army for some smiles.
FAST ATTACK
Hellions - Cover is your best friend with these guys. If you don't have cover then you don't have hellions. They are pretty good in CC. If you throw the Baron in there then that stealth bonus will make your guys pretty good. I am a big fan of the Helliarch's grab and go. So much fun. I don't use these guys that often but they are always fun.
Scourges - These guys were not good in 5th. Now they are decent. They have access to some nice weaponry though. Haywire from range should make even the most somber archon smile. They are still expensive and for the points I will take some reavers.
Reaver Jetbikes - Speaking of reavers. FUN!!! they can tank hunt or just zoom around and annoy the crap out of you enemy's units with their bladevanes. I mean come on. They have a jink save worthy of the gods with skilled rider and turbo boost.. Random number of attacks make for lotsa dice. Caltrops are expensive but make them really dangerous. Attacks with a group of 9 w/ caltrops can be devastating if you can get more than one unit you are really earning those points back. New skilled rider rules really make these guys worth it. Give them a look see. You can now allocate wounds a lot easier now thanks to the new FAQ. Well, I completely forgot to talk about AT with these guys. Take in squads of multiples of 3. Every third one can get a heat lance. Tanks don't like heat lances at all.
Beastmasters - Good times here. These guys can really tear things up. Clawed fiends are a skip. To expensive. A nice pile of Khymaeras and Razorwing flock will scare the pants off people. With a billion wounds and attacks with some Invulnerable saves is sick. They are really cheap per wound as well plus the flocks have rending. Difficult terrain, HA! Throw in a Baron for stealth and cover hop to destruction.
HEAVY SUPPORT
Ravager - These were good and are good. Use them. 3 dark lances are nice. 3 disintegrator cannons are sweet though. They fling a lot of terminator killing shots. These are a mainstay unless of course you are a flier turd.
Razorwing Jetfighter - Fliers are nice. They anger old codexes and even newer ones if not prepared. The razorwing comes out firing large blast and have a nice variety of AT and AI. They are not to expensive for what they. Also I am not a fan of the necrotoxin for the cost. Always take Flickerfields.
Voidraven Bomber - Always Flickerfields on these as well. This guy is quite deadly. S9 lance is sweet. Bast templates everywhere. If you have the points go for it. It is a bit costly but kinda worth it. No missiles. not worth it.
Talos Pain Engine - RAWR! this guy can do a lot of things but it has one major drawback...it is SLOW!!! The slowness makes them easy targets if you can't keep them in cover.
Chronos Parasite Engine - Talos's little brother. Same issue. Slow. The ability to distribute pain tokens would be sweet if not for the fact that the rest of you army is way to far away to take advantage. I guess if you do the whole my troops need exercise routine and walk your units ( I don't like that approach) then it could work.
TRANSPORTS
Venom - Love these things. They are great. Small TB squads with blaster or small scoring units with warriors are my personal favorites. You can also do the wrack thing. Always, and I do mean always take double splinter cannons. They will get you where you going and mess up a few things on the way. I always have a few in my list.
Raider - Good times. 10 models/ raider and go. Great little transport. 3 Hull points is nice. If you have a squad of warriors then grab some splinter racks. Love me some open top. either great for assault or great for exploding. I love surprises.
Dais of Destruction - I am not a fan of this thing. So expensive and silly. good AV but meh. I'm squishy and I know it.
FORTIFICATIONS
Aegis Defence Lines - I am a fan of ADL all of the time. I know it doesn't fit but come on we need Anti air and a quad gun does that. Put Lelith on that thing and it will work. let someone try and claim your objectives with her around. A pile of warriors behind one is nice too.
Skyshield Landing Pad - Nope. 4+ is nice but DE really don't want to deepstrike that much and not a fan of sitting around. The bastion gives a better save and is a building so meh on this.
Imperial Bastion - Armor 14 with some nice guns in it would be fun even though not to fluffy. Your vehicles will get nice cover behind it as well.
Fortress of Redemption - NO! this thing is expensive. Makes you sit still which is just wrong.
GOOD LOADOUTS
Archon - Huskblade, soultrap and shadow field
These are a great CC unit. ID AP2, possible doubling of strenth, and a 2++ for a bit.
Incubi - With archon you don't really need more than 5.
This is a tough CC unit.
Trueborn - 3 or 4 w/ blasters on a venom with double splinter cannons.
The core of most armies. A good amount of poison and some S8 AP2 lance goodness
Warriors - 5 on a venom w/ 2 splinter cannons or 10 on a boat with splinter racks
9 dudes and the Duke with splinter racks is great. 3+ poison is nice.
Wyches - Pile them into a raider and go tank hunting.
If no tanks then throw them in from of a tough CC unit to hold them up.
Reavers - Groups in multiples of 3 only. all the good weapons are per 3.
Beastmasters - depending on poins you want 3 BMs, 5 Khymaeras, and 4 flocks or 5 BMs, 5 Kymaeras, and 8 Flocks. The last one is a huge fire draw and people will run away.
I think I got all the units in there. I hope this helps some people. DE are a blast but you can't get discouraged at first due to the squish. They are a really fun army to play but you have to stay smart. Hang in there and learn it is the best advise I have.
Im sorry to say, but I feel you missed the mark hard on this one. Let me go through each entry and let me explain where you diviated alot.
ReplyDeleteVect- You pretty much have him down pat. Although his 4+ to steal is amazing if you really want to go first. That alone should raise his rating up higher, as many armies wish they had that. You also forgot to mention he has prefered enemy, which passes off to his squad.
Urien- I think you have majorly done him some injustice. First off he is T5 and WS5, something that puts him way over a regular Haemie. Add into that he starts with a pain token and gives out D3 pain tokens to other units. He also has a clonefield and flesh gauntlet in his cost base, and regains a lost wound every turn. He basically is a challenge horder. Let him go against most characters and laugh as your clonefield takes most of their damage, and whatever does come through he can re-knit... all the while trying to ID them. Also lets not forget he can up a unit of grots to S6 base for cheap, which makes them more of a threat against tanks when they have Furious Charge (which they will because of him giving out free pain tokens)
Lady Malys- I think you overestimate her. Being S3 and only have a 4++ makes her relatively weak. She does almost nothing in combat against MEQ, which is atleast 70% of your enemies. The only reason to ever take her is her re-deployment, but we can get it in a better form called Eldrad w/ allies, or just use our speed T1 to redeploy anyway (also it doesnt work if you go second regardless... so 50% of the time it doesnt work)
Draz- I can agree with your assessment, but remember 2+ armorsave is now something to be feared due to power weapon changes. Also being able to dodge weapons in certain situations is a really good ability. Although being only able to join Incubi hurts his potential.
Duke- Hugh... dont fall for his tricks. First off he is a WWWAAAYYYY weaker archon. His stat is just way lower than a normal archon, and costs more than even most of the tooled up archons out there. Add in that his 3 rules pulls your list apart (you want to stick him into warriors, but then you want him in combat and some wyches to get the re-rolls) I dont see the love affair with this guy, and he is a newbie trap through and through.
Lelith- Now you give her too much credit. While she has a ton of attacks and looks really good on paper, her S3 ruins it. She only stastically does 2 wounds against MEQs, which is the same for a Succubus w/ Agoniser (and you can get two of them for the price of her). Also add in the fact that you cant mitigate this with drugs, and the only way to get it is through pain tokens (which again... she has a problem killing things to begin with). Although I will admit the addition of challenges have been kind to her.
Baron- Your assessment is valid, but I would add that he has a lower statline than a normal Archon, although he is far cheaper anyway...
Succubus- You forgot to mention how cheap she is for her wound output, also the best drug for her is probably the 2nd drug result (due to MEQ then needing 5s to wound her)
Haemie- Only thing I would add is he is one of the only ways to get templates in the army
Wracks- Again add they are one of the only ways to get templates. Also being T4 makes them the toughess scoring option for us, and they outpreform wyches in combat against MEQ all the time
Incubi- I would add they are made to chew through MEQ
Grots- Again another unit you dont do them justice. being T5 w/ 3 wounds makes them super durable, and 4 of them fit perfectly in a raider with 2 HQs. They make the best retinue we can run (due to just taking wounds like a boss) and they punch hard as well. Add in a template weapon, and they can wreck face easily. I would give them another try for yourself... you are missing out on one of the most underrated units in our book.
ReplyDeleteBloodbrides- They dont deserve to be under Mandrakes. They are better than normal wyches. They stastically do more damage and can actually win combat against MEQs without needing two units. Add in the fact that 3 wych weapons at 9 makes them a great bodyguard for a HQ, and greatly increases their damage potential, unlike wyches which the wych weapons really dont help them out that much. They arent an auto include by far, but deserve better than an F rating.
Wyches- The grading is fair, but the reason why is not imho. Overwatch really doesnt effect them much, it just forces us to take a Phantasm Grenade Launcher for stealth (which when added with cover, gives us a 4+~3+ when charging through cover, which we do easily due to fleet) And the pain token nerf is interesting, as while it lowered their effectiveness against your basic troops, it increased their effectiveness at what they are good at, tarpitting expensive units due to being able to take FNP against power weapons. You throw wyches at a unit full of power weapons, and laugh as they dont get out of it till 3~4 turns later. What makes them weak is only being S3 T3, which atleast unlike Lelith you can negate with drugs results (but again... they are garentueed).
Hellions- I feel you rate these guys too high. They are basically weaker wyches with semi-decent shooting. Add in without baron they die so easily (to terrain tests, to lack of a save, to anything really.) The only way to run them is with Baron, period. Also the stunclaw is a gimick that isnt worth its points... you might as well just buy a power weapon.
Scourges- They were better last edition due to stun locking. Currently their only good build is either haywire blaster to remove hull points, or sucicide deepstriking heat lances... That being said your better off with Reavers anytime. Also there is something to say about a 4+ armorsave and the reduction of some coversaves to 5+... but thats almost negligable...
Reavers- Easily tied with beasts as our best FA slot, if not ahead of them (personally I do think that they are, since you cant LoS! in 6" anymore). But you never touch on their AT potential. Blasters and 2d6 movement in the assault phase means they can JSJ (jump shoot jump for those that dont know) out of LoS blocking cover, or get out of assault range easily. Also the option for heat lances means if you try to be agressive with them, they can blow up tanks like nothing. Add in they are 4 attacks on the charge (3 normal and 1 HoW attack) means they are decent in combat as well.
Beasts- Again I feel they really got hurt without the ability to LoS! within 6", but overall I agree with your assessment.
Razorwing- I would add you should always take a flickerfield, as that makes it so you never have to dodge (and in turn never have to snapshot). Also I would add how durable they are now due to the 6th edition ruleset. Also never take missile upgrades, as the missile upgrades are situational.
Void Raven- Again add about the flickerfield and how tough it is. Also never take missile upgrades, it splits its identity (where it wants to be AI or AT). If you want missiles, get a razorwing.
ReplyDeleteTalos- With run and a splinter cannon, it can reach out and touch people even in the backfield. You loss its biggest potential though, which is a damage soaker. Being T7 and having a 3+ save (and maybe FNP due to its cannon) means it can soak down some major fire. Add in that FNP now gives it a save against things that ignore its armorsave, and you got yourself a fire magnet worth its points.
Chronos- Your right on this thing is weird. But given it again can be a fire magnet (and a cheaper one for that) its decent. Also it has one of the few templates we can get (and its AP3 isnt random) and giving out pain tokens makes it a gimicky choice, but not too bad overall.
Venoms- You forgot a grade
ADL- You complain about the Fortress making you immobile, yet say nothing about the ADL??? It anchors your army to one point, which then reduces one of DE's strengths, and that is mobility. Overall I dont like the ADL at all, and am tired of seeing it in DE armies. If it works for you, then enjoy it, overall though I feel its an inferior choice.
Skyshield- The one benifet over the ADL that this has is that its save is a 4++ instead of a 4+ coversave. Also it gives you something to hide vehicles behind, which is a bonus.
Overall I think a grading system is too subjective. If you only used Grots once and felt they were underwhelming, down goes their grade. I think you should re-visit some of your choices before you start grading them as you have missed a ton of excellent units. Also more body to the article would be nice other than just "its good" on some of them. If you want your blog to stick out, you need quality over quantity.
Thanks for the feedback. I will take that into consideration. As i get more games in with some of the units I will update this. These are just my opinions as of now. This will be an ever changing breakdown
DeleteYou definitely need to mention the tank hunting capabilities of Reavers with Blasters/Heat Lances. They're pretty good at it, and they then become the most versatile unit in the codex, close enough. It is the main reason I love them. Their mobility and versatility means there is almost no situation on the board I cannot affect with them, and they're pretty tough to boot.
ReplyDeleteHi, I really enoyed this read. I'm putting together 2 simialr dark eldar lists. One with Eldar Allies and one without - they're very similar.
ReplyDeleteWhat do you think to 9 Trueborn, 4 with Splinter Cannons and 5 with Shardcarbines in a Raider with Duke Sliscus and Splinter Racks. I understand anything being hit by that is over kill, but I was more thinking about the longevity of the squad.
Also can units in a Raider shoot from it if it has use its turbo boosters?
Been taking a close look at some Dark Eldar units as well. You can get a few tips on my site (army-builder.com/).
ReplyDeleteI do agree with you on the jetbikes, although I sometimes wonder if there is anything better than wyches in a venom when it comes to killing tanks.
Mark
So, with changes to challenges in 7th... Hesperax + sanctic farseer + 8 incubi in a raider? Or just get the tooled up Archos instead of her? Hammerhand is a beast, and Sanctuary makes her nigh unkillable and helps the incubi and farseer survive. Now in a challenge her extra attacks after killing get distributed onto rest of squad. If she's S5 from HH, and the incubi are S6 and the Farseer even at S5, what's stopping them from wrecking nearly anything? After just one squad kill, then 2, she gets even better, and the squad can survive even the loss of a sniped farseer... If they manage to PF hesperax early, we'll I still have the farseer buffing incubi... thoughts?
ReplyDelete